Well done. I *love* it when JWs say that Russell & Co. knew that 1914 was a pivotal date, but they weren't sure what it meant. That is so false! They thought they knew exactly what it meant, as evidenced by the ZWT articles posted above.
Olin Moyles Ghost
JoinedPosts by Olin Moyles Ghost
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Dispelling Myths: 1914 Expectations
by AuldSoul injehovah's witnesses currently teach that prior to 1914 no one could have predicted what happened in europe in 1914. they teach that the world was heading toward such idyllic stability that the events of 1914 caught everyone off-guard.
so surprised were the people of the time that they looked back with fondness at the calm preceding 1914 as a time that could never be gone back to.. what were the bible students teaching about 1914 prior to that year?
in what capacity did they claim to be teaching?.
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Rationales behind Elimination of the Book Study and Likely Effects Thereof
by Olin Moyles Ghost ini realize that the book study news has been discussed ad nauseam, but i would like to join the fun.
lots of potential reasons have been bandied about on the board.
for example, legal liability for crimes/torts that take place at the bookstudy homes may make the society nervous.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Also, I think that eliminating the book study has been on the GB's radar for some time. It has probably taken this long for them to reach a 2/3 majority. I find it difficult to believe that some of the more hardcore/old school members would go along with this (e.g., Jaracz, Losch). Perhaps the newer GB members who are ex COs and DOs realized that 3 meetings per week is a burden on the friends. In other words, perhaps the explanation given in the letter is...dare I say it...true.
As has been stated in other threads, the Society is almost certain to retain the small groups for field service. Thus, there will still be an overseer over small groups that will keep tabs on the field service and "spirituality" of the members, including being the point man for any shepherding. That overseer just won't have to conduct a meeting anymore. -
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Predict How JWs Will Accept The New Announcement
by minimus inwill they be disturbed?.
happy?
thinking this proves the end is nearer than ever??
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Olin Moyles Ghost
My friends will be jumping up and down...figuratively, of course.
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Rationales behind Elimination of the Book Study and Likely Effects Thereof
by Olin Moyles Ghost ini realize that the book study news has been discussed ad nauseam, but i would like to join the fun.
lots of potential reasons have been bandied about on the board.
for example, legal liability for crimes/torts that take place at the bookstudy homes may make the society nervous.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I realize that the book study news has been discussed ad nauseam, but I would like to join the fun.
Lots of potential reasons have been bandied about on the board. For example, legal liability for crimes/torts that take place at the bookstudy homes may make the Society nervous. This seems reasonable, but it's probably not the primary reason. Another potential reason identified by some is the fear of apostate talk or questions due to the intimate nature of a home book study. I am skeptical of this. In general, I think many ex-JWs fall into one of the same traps that JWs fall into. That trap is overstating their own significance. No doubt the Society is concerned about apostates, but probably no more so than with materialism, porn, divorce, apathy, depression, etc.
I think the main reasons for the change are practical. First, compared to the other meetings the book study is poorly attended. Second, because of the high cost of living in the U.S., the friends have to work longer hours. Three meetings per week is a burden for lots of these friends, esp. those with children.
I wonder if this change will make it easier for JW kids to play school sports. When I was in school, the fact that we had 2 meeting nights per week effectively foreclosed any opportunity to play...I would simply miss too many practices (as well as some games). Now, with only one meeting night per week, more JW parents may rationalize allowing their kids to play school sports. -
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I had a chance to mention to my mom that I heard the bookstudy was no more
by sosad inand she told me that was absolutly not the case.
she laughed and said that would never happen - that they needed it and that where ever i had gotten my infomation from was absolutly wrong and that i could tell them so.
she then told me that the public talk had been shortened - and i said that i had heard that it was 15 minutes shorter - the fact that i knew that kinda threw her.. but the book study would never go.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Cognitive Dissident: I agree with your "sunk cost syndrome" analogy.
Also, I think many long-time JWs are like poker players who went "all in" at some point. After you've gone all in, there's no turning back. This particularly applies to JWs who have given up something major. For example, the parent who lost a child because of the blood issue, the 40-something single pioneer sister who cultivated the "gift of singleness," or the 40-something pioneer brother who turned down college scholarships to serve God full-time. Imagine realizing that you've given up so much...for nothing. -
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Why no dub buzz over the new generation change?
by oompa inor have i just missed it?
i finally had to tell my active wife about it....the wt lesson is next week but she has not read it yet, and none of her friends have mentioned it to her.
big buzz in 1995 when i was active, but hear very little except here now.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Oompa, you asked how my folks reacted to my points. They weren't receptive. They worship the FDS like an idol. It's so sad to see.
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Why no dub buzz over the new generation change?
by oompa inor have i just missed it?
i finally had to tell my active wife about it....the wt lesson is next week but she has not read it yet, and none of her friends have mentioned it to her.
big buzz in 1995 when i was active, but hear very little except here now.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Two main reasons:
(1) Many JWs (most of the ones I know) don't read the literature.
(2) The new light has no effect on Joe Publisher.
I had a discussion with my (very) JW parents about the new generation change. They opined that this change was a very minor refinement. I agreed with them that it's minor--as it relates to the hope of Joe Publisher. But, I pointed out, it is a major doctrinal change. It's a 180-degree shift in the meaning of "generation." From 1995 - 2008, "generation" in Matt. 24 meant wicked people in the last days. Now it means the anointed. How more different can you get?
But, all in all, it's not a major change to the witnesses. It's more of an esoteric theological issue. It doesn't affect the life or hope of the average witness. Thus, it is of much less importance than the 1995 change. -
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Did the WTS actually get it right in 1942?
by Olin Moyles Ghost inrecently in the book study, we discussed revelation 17:8 which says, in part, "the wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction.
" in chapter 34, paragraphs 4-5, the revelation climax book relates that in september 1942, knorr gave a talk called "peace--can it last?
" in that talk, knorr noted that the league was in the abyss at that time as a result of world war 2. he asked "will the league remain in the pit?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Thanks for the info. It's interesting that the footnote to paragraph 5 mentions the New League of Nations formed by the axis powers, but conveniently fails to mention that the U.N. was actually formed in 1942!
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Did the WTS actually get it right in 1942?
by Olin Moyles Ghost inrecently in the book study, we discussed revelation 17:8 which says, in part, "the wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction.
" in chapter 34, paragraphs 4-5, the revelation climax book relates that in september 1942, knorr gave a talk called "peace--can it last?
" in that talk, knorr noted that the league was in the abyss at that time as a result of world war 2. he asked "will the league remain in the pit?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Recently in the book study, we discussed Revelation 17:8 which says, in part, "The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction." In chapter 34, paragraphs 4-5, the Revelation Climax book relates that in September 1942, Knorr gave a talk called "Peace--Can it Last?" In that talk, Knorr noted that the League was in the abyss at that time as a result of World War 2. He asked "Will the League remain in the pit?" In reply, he predicted that "The association of worldly nations will rise again." This came to pass in 1945 with the United Nations.
When we studied this, my wife pointed it out to me as an example of something the WTS actually got correct. While she recognizes that the WTS has a history of being wrong (1914, 1925, etc.), she thought it would be fair to consider this as an example where they were actually right.
One tangentially related point came to my mind. A 1941 WT article refers to the "remaining months before Armageddon" or something to that effect. Also, the Judge died in 1942 before Knorr gave this talk. According to Knorr's talk, Armageddon would not come until the League of Nations came out of the abyss--certainly something that would take more than a few months. Thus, it appears that Knorr's talk was "new light"--i.e., different from what the Judge taught.
So, did the Society actually get this one right? Or am I missing something? -
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Transcript of U.S. v. Rutherford, et al.?
by Olin Moyles Ghost inover the past few months, i have been researching the wt society's doctrines and history.
in doing so, i have tried to use as little so-called "apostate" material as possible.
this is because (as we are all aware) witnesses are taught to fear apostate literature, and if i ever hope to enlighten any of my loved ones, i am not going to be able to do so by waving a copy of coc in their faces.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
VM44: "Moyle was a lawyer, and I don't think he got the 100K."
You're correct. He didn't get the whole $100K, but he got $30K...not a bad chunk of change for the early '40s. I read somewhere that the Society paid him in silver coins (a la Judas).